[Opensource] The Great Frames Debate

[Peter A. Pilgrim]

Thompson, Kris wrote:
>> Are we getting onto the same page?? -Mike
> 
> 
> I'm not sure.  While I do agree that frames are bad I only use it on the admin side.  I do
> agree with David that in the case of eforums and the way it is designed with frames really
> stinks but that seems to be a eforum issue that really shouldn't have anything to do with the
> framework's admin side using frames or not, right?

It stinks. This is because the eforum are forward dispatching to single to JSP view and
not to a single frameset view. Hence only the body frame changes from hyperlink and
hyperlink.

> 
> So are we on the same page?  If we look at the framework only, not eforum, epoll, or the
> other add-on components, how much of a pain/issue is the frames issue?  Are folks out there
> using expresso to build sites and still holding on to the framed infrastructure for the
> client side?

eForum does not have code that explicitly refers to the framed infrastructure.

However some of the root eforum pages are designed to fit into a component
architecture and a least share or inherit some of the menus from the
expresso admin pages. If you want to show list of components in the left hand
side some aspect must be shared. At the mo it is ugly set of JSP includes
that is difficult to understand. Either replace it with JSP tags or move it
in to Tiles context parameter.

Still another options which I have just recently become aware of is
a TilesController. You will have read the Advanced Usage PDF in
Cedric's web for further details, but basically each Tile can have
it own controller. It might make the rendering of the component menu
simpler.

Having said all of that, I think most people who use a eForum or ePoll will
want to fit the content in to their companies own "e-Style Look and Feel Guides"
and of course this is a no-no for frames usually. There do not want to
JCorporate.org all over their COMPANY-X.COM web sites.

Lucky for eForum only the root index.jsp actually renders a frameset,
and the rest of JSPs for example going to single JSP view.

> Now if anyone has every taken a tour of the presentation directories in expresso
> (expresso-web/expresso) I think they would have to agree that something has to be done and
> from my experience with tiles and some simple clean up of those directories it could be
> greatly simpified!!  So what I would like to propose to the group is to at least clean up and
> simplify the pages for the Admin side and maybe we should provide a "Home Page/Welcome page"
> that is not framed and simple links to the Admin page that could remain framed or could be
> changed to something else.  I propose this because everytime I show the current "Home
> Page/Welcome Page" to new developers/clients they always "freak out" because it is framed
> and then I have to explain to them that this is only the Admin pages and all client
> implementations are never done with frames, bla bla bla.

What is needed is a standard tiles layouts as I wrote in my previous post.


--////--


-- 
Peter Pilgrim
            __ _____ _____ _____
           / //__  // ___// ___/   +  Serverside Java
          / /___/ // /__ / /__     +  Struts
         / // ___// ___// ___/     +  Expresso Committer
      __/ // /__ / /__ / /__       +  Independent Contractor
     /___//____//____//____/       +  Intrinsic Motivation
On Line Resume
    ||
    \\===>  `` http://www.xenonsoft.demon.co.uk/no-it-striker.html ''