[Opensource] Maturing Framework market

[Thompson, Kris]

You're sort of right.  For presentation frameworks they need to be simple and clean.  By presentation frameworks I'm talking about Struts, Webwork, Maverick etc.  However Expresso does not fit into that catagory, it is an architectual framework.  Sandra, Larry and Chandan did an excellent presentation at JavaOne discussing that issue, http://www.mvc2frameworks.org/

Kris Thompson
www.frameworks-boulder.org


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Irazabal, Alex [mailto:Alex.Irazabal at aig.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 7:24 AM
> To: 'opensource at jcorporate.com'
> Subject: RE: [Opensource] Maturing Framework market
> 
> 
> Sandra, my only concern about a product like expresso it that 
> it would try
> to do too much. For example althought it supports Struts, it 
> also has its
> own MVC framework. Perhaps if there was an easier way to 
> understand what
> components do what, interdependencies, and the like. I have 
> used expresso
> very lightly and these concerns would probably dissapear as 
> you become a
> mature user of the product. However, my original thought 
> about doing too
> much is still valid. Frameworks should frame specific 
> problems, not try to
> address all (or a significant part of).
> 
> Just my 2 cents, :)
> Alex
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sandra Cann [mailto:scann at jcorporate.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 12:50 AM
> To: opensource at jcorporate.com
> Subject: RE: [Opensource] Maturing Framework market
> 
> 
> Alex 
> 
> I also concur Expresso is more mature than its commercial 
> counterparts as
> far as I can see. I started thinking about this question of 
> how open source
> frameworks compared to commercial in terms of features and 
> maturity while we
> were preparing for our JavaOne session on frameworks. Hence we started
> collecting some information at mvc2frameworks.org and invited 
> commercial
> frameworks to participate. 
> 
> I see the architectural framework market in a shakeout 
> period. I think what
> happens to a market when open source products are more mature 
> than their
> commercial counterparts (I propose due to the fast evolution 
> of the software
> with the open source community development process) is that commercial
> framework companies cannot survive and the company disappears 
> or shifts
> emphasis to service. I propose that we can see that happening now.  
> 
> Here are a few very recent developments in the framework 
> arena that you can
> check out on theserverside.com. 
> 	- altoweb has closed it doors (out of business)
> 	- realMethods opened sourced its framework (GPL so no good for
> commercial dev) - with some less than favourable comments on 
> the code. 
> 	
> In other news I talked to the wakesoft folks at JavaOne and 
> was told they
> had then only 12 customers. In these recession days how much 
> of a concern is
> it to consumers regarding their continued presense in the 
> market I don't
> know? As an aside how can software really be stable/evolved 
> enough when only
> used in such a small sampling? 
> 
> A large user base is why an open source framework like 
> Expresso evolves more
> quickly, gets tested in more environments and is more mature. 
> That's hard to
> beat.  
> 
> While there have been in the last year many newcomers to the 
> framework arena
> they don't have as much to offer as Expresso. Expresso has evolved and
> matured since its development began in 1996!!! - that's a lot 
> of experience
> gained - and its large user base means it will continue to 
> technologically
> evolve to the needs of the users. And like a snowball rolling down a
> mountain, a large user base expotentially grows as long as we 
> continue to be
> responsive to the user community's needs. Expresso users also have
> confidence that by using the architectural framework with the 
> largest market
> share, their products are more stable now and in the future.
> 
> Well that's how I am seeing things. What do you think?
> 
> Sandra
> 
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